Animal Rights Community Online

[arc108]

 Catholic Vegetarians

[gibby]

can anyone tell me - is the catholic wine given in communion still containg animal products???

G

[Sambonie]

catholic vegetarians

[veggieart]

Catholicism doesn't (nor does Christianity) even suggest vegetarianism in the slightest.

You misquote bad translations out of context, and completely misunderstand them at that.



"What you have done to these the least of My brethren you have done unto Me."

Other animals were not considered as such in that time. Aside from Matthew basically being completely unreliable, I'll presume you're going by catholic canon- it still doesn't support vegetarianism.


"CATHOLIC VEGETARIAN SAINTS"

1. Proof please?

2. Many of these people did so for lent-like fasts, or for purposes of asceticism- not because they were encouraging vegetarianism. There's a big different in being an ascetic and skipping the meat because it's tasty as a sacrifice to a god, and being a vegetarian at heart.

3. Also, I don't believe these urban legends are canon? Or are these the official miracles (preaching to fish? Seriously?) that canonized those people as saints?



"St Nicholas of Tolentino* believed they were following the example of Jesus in not eating His animals."

What one saint may or may not have done or said still has nothing to do with Catholicism's beliefs as a whole- their words are not canonized into the Catholic book.


Would you like me to reference some of the more brutal and bloo-thirty saints as indicative of Catholic belief? It goes two ways. You can't accept the teachings of canonized saits without taking them all. No picking and choosing.

If you're going to use "saints" to support vegetarianism- which they generally don't, aside from a few odd balls who did it in spite of religion and not because of it- I will blow you out of the water with bloody atrocities that will make it hard for you to fall asleep in the same room as a bible.




"Meatless Fridays were the last vestige of early Christian abstinence from meat in following Christ's example."


Woah woah woah! There is no evidence that Yeshua existed, much less that he was a vegetarian. The Catholic bible doesn't say so- it's not canon by a long shot. There's actually good reason to believe that he almost certainly at lamb, as a Jew, and fish.



"A papal bull once excommunicated anyone who attended a bullfight because the barbaric cruelty in them."

Or because of the violence? Nonetheless, a beef against bullfighting does not imply vegetarian philosophy. The church has always been against certain forms of entertainment.


"Genesis 1: 29, Isaiah 65, Daniel 1 Exodus 26: 34 are some of the thousands of quotes in the Bible on vegetarian diet."

Thousands? Really? I'm amazed that anybody can take enough poorly translated quotes out of context enough in the Catholic book to find even ten. Show me these thousands. Or are you lying? I'm going to go with lying.

All of the references you gave are, quite simply, absurd. Have you even read your book?

The fable of Daniel is about the best you'll come up with, and that was about peity towards YHWH and rejection of the sustenance the king offered him in favor of asceticism.


Isaiah is not about the law, nor meant for man kind today; it is prophesy (one that will never happen). You really think serpents are going to eat dust? At the very most It's a suggestion that vegetarianism is slated to happen for snakes and lions some day after the end of the world- not humans- but do take that along side how much YHWH enjoys his sacrifices (though condemns unworthy ones).



"The command to feed the hungry, given by Jesus in His Sermon on the Mount, implies vegetarianism..."



What? No it doesn't. In the fairy tale, Yeshua himself feeds people with fish. And how about Peter being told to "kill and eat" in the story in Acts 10:9?

The book was written in a context very unlike today where overpopulation was not an issue- if it was and YHWH wasn't so dense he might have put a cap on the multiplication suggestion.

And if you'll remember Cain and Abel, you might see the obvious contradiction of any implications to the contrary of raising and eating meat.



"since the flesh of animals yields 100 to 1000 lbs an acre, dairy products around 10,000 lbs. an acre, some vegetables, 81,000 lbs. an acre, and fruits from centenarian fruit trees 450,000 or more lbs. an acre."

Complete ignorance of biology and agriculture. Congratulations!

Not all land can grow fruit trees- those take quite a bit of rain. Some land is only suitable for grazing. Animal agriculture wouldn't even be particularly inefficient if we didn't use feed lots to finish them- if anything, that's the only implication there- no feed lots.



"Daniel O'Steen, of National Right To Life, felt he must be consistent in his prolife stance and so many years ago became a vegetarian."

Wow, somebody being marginally less hypocritical. If he's not the bloody pope, it's still not canon. That means nothing to Catholicism as a whole.

How about this:

During early world war two, the pope endorsed Hitler, who claimed to be a vegetarian (although apparently ate at least bird, so not really). He was certainly a catholic though, and posed as a vegetarian- and the pope supported him (arguably until he started killing more Jews than made the pope comfortable).

That's about the closest link to vegetarianism that you'll find to Catholicism.




"Fr. Ron Lengwin of KDKA Radio in Pittsburgh believes that the apple Adam ate was the first heart of a butchered animal."


Riiight... and that's canon how? An even crazier Christian decided that hearts grew on trees. On kabbalistic trees of knowledge of good and evil for that matter.


"Rep Dennis Kucinich"


You're just listing catholics who happen to be vegetarians. That proves nothing about Catholicism other than, at some point, some Catholics have been vegetarianism. It is no more a support for Catholic vegetarianism than all of the Catholic pedophiles are support for catholic pedophilia.

If anything, it seems to me that there's quite a bit more support for sexually abusing children than for a vegetarian diet in Catholicism.

Would you like me to list some to prove that Catholicism supports child molestation? Or will you accept that because a few random catholics support it (you can find random catholics supporting nearly anything) that is doesn't become canon?



"Catholic colleges such as Georgetown have responded to the growing number of their vegan students by providing options."

It boggles the mind the things you list. That's business, not a papal proclaimation that veganism is the only way to salvation.



"Exodus 26: 34 is a command not to kill."

Or not to murder, actually. Read the "Old Testament" a little more thoroughly. It's VERY obvious is not only condones, but encourages eating meat. It was never considered murder to kill animals.

Use your bad translations if you want- you're not fooling anybody with any sense.



"Governor Jesse Ventura in reference to the death penalty (for animals too) has said that that command is not asterisked with exceptions."


Oh, yes, because he's the pope, and perfectly entitled to rewrite canon?

Why are you listing all of this irrelevant drivel?



"He says that the word 'opsarian' means 'pickled fish' and is the Greek word for the fish Jesus created, meaning that Jesus did not materialize freshly suffocated fish but materialized processed fish."


And the difference between magically materialized fish and magically materialized pickeled fish is? Is one magically vegan?


"Bruce Friedrich, Catholic of PETA, ran their Jesus Was Vegetarian campaign."



Which is laughably absurd. Although it could be argued that if a person didn't ever exist that that person couldn't have eaten meat. Zues is a vegetarian, don't you know? Since he isn't real, he can't eat meat.

Give me a break. Nobody knows anything about the actual person who may or may not have inspired the fairy tale. Any suggestion that we do is incredible.



"Virginia Bourquardez, who once hitchhiked for the first time at the age of 77 when her ride dematerialized,"


Bwah? Dematerialized? Amazing! The world must seem so big and confusing.


"Leonardo Da Vinci, a Catholic, was also a fruitarian."


1. It's unlikely that he was catholic; most artists of that day were free thinkers and followed home-brew deism. The desire not to be KILLED made everybody seem to be a catholic regardless of the actuality.

2. Even if he were, as I've said before, citing a few odd ball catholics who have supported it does nothing for your case because Leo isn't canon. (nor is Danny DeVito)

3. Any real reliable evidence on Leo's life at all? The claim that he was actually a fruitarian is highly dubious.



"a reference to Dante's Inferno.. in which
meat is described as a cruel repast in XXXIII.1"


When did Dante become biblical canon? Catholics are odd birds indeed.



"Genesis 1: 29 Behold I have given you herbyielding seed.
To you it shall be for meat."


Meat has nothing to do with it; that just means food. YHWH was very clear shortly thereafter about which animals were clean to eat.


"Methusaleh.. the oldest man in the Bible, achieved 969"


And that has to do with what?


"Exodus: 26: 34 Thou Shalt Not Kill (not asterisked with
exceptions)"


Oh yes it is. Since it's murder, and the asterisk is made up of an entire culture of connotations, including all old testament law on the subject.

It's quite alright to stone your child to death, don't you know, if he's being a brat.



"Jesus: Ye are whited sepulchres (Greek sarcophagi sarx flesh ..phagi eater)"



What are you talking about? You're clearly referencing Mathew 23:27, but you have no idea what it means- or you're deliberately lying about this stuff.

In the fairy tale, he's criticizing the Pharisees for being hypocrites. He's not saying anything about vegetarianism.

Ironically enough, Yeshua proves himself a hypocrite here in the story by calling the scribes and Pharisees fools. Read Matthew 5:22.



"Jesus threw the butchers out of the temple."


Has nothing to do with vegetarianism, and you might consider taking that more in context. He threw out the money changers who were selling salvation (actually, he didn't, because it's a myth, but in the story he did). It wasn't about butchering animals- the character didn't care about that- it was about getting out of sin easily by paying your way clean.

It's EXTREMELY ironic, considering modern Christian beliefs about Jebus being a get out of sin free card. Funny, actually.


"Daniel was vegetarian"


Was he now? That's extremely unlikely. As I said before, the fairy tale was about piety towards YHWH and rejection of the sustenance the king offered him in favor of asceticism. Go read.

Also, even if true in the story, it's irrelevant.




"Paul: If your flesheating offends your brother, forego it."




Way to take a dishonestly bad translation out of context!


I believe you are referring to Romans 14:21

Read Romans 14 in entirety- it certainly does not advocate vegetarianism. It cautions against excessive pleasures of the flesh, and tells people, basically, that they can eat whatever they want, but to try not to make Christians look back by chomping on fleshy pleasures and gulping down wine all of the time.

Are you completely ignorant of Romans 14 and Saul of Tarsus' teachings in general, or are you trying to be dishonest?




"Jesus: Feed the hungry"

I already explained why this has nothing to do with him advocating vegetarianism. In the fairy tale, the jerk also said the poor will always to be with you, and to pamper him instead of helping the poor. Yeah, real nice guy.




Catholicism has nothing to do with vegetarianism. The very few catholics who were compassionate to follow a vegetarian diet did so in spite of the religion- certainly not because of it.

Catholicism, and Abrahamic religion in general, is essentially anti-vegetarian.

[Nikmah]

[danielle86]

Catholic Vegetarians