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Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
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Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Senior Animal Rights Activist

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Georgia, USA
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Hilary wrote:
Faunus wrote:
Why must your values as a vegan be considered subordinate to the mindless, inconsiderate values of others? That's my question.


Absolutely right!

Unfortunatly sometimes it's difficult to decide... For example, in my case (my brother's wedding dinner) what should I have done? Stay home? Probably my parents would have killed me Confused


Hi Hilary! No, I don't suggest that you or anyone not attend a social function over food just because I personally cannot sit at the same table while others feast on the flesh of a slaughtered being. I have to tell others that I am not like other vegans I know, so I don't give the impression that becoming a vegan means excluding yourself from numerous social functions. But just as someone with a practicing Jewish religious identity will refuse to eat non-Kosher foods, I also reserve the right as someone with a vegan identity to not be disregarded either. I don't accept double standards.

Although veganism is not a "diet thing", it does include our food choices - and so do social events. So what does the hypoglycemic do when the doctor emphatically tells someone to stay off the raw sugar, and someone is insisting that they have a piece of wedding cake and partake of the expensive wine? What if someone cannot tolerate wheat without suffering notable physical consequences, and must refuse the home-baked bread and pasta dishes that the host cooked-up? They suffer physical discomfort if they give into temptation, and would I suffer psychological suffering sitting next to someone eating a rare-cooked steak with blood oozing onto the plate. Forget it!

Having said this - food choices, just like religion and politics, does create social alienation. To avoid this unncessary problem, I think it is the responsibility of a host to their honour guests individually, and not pretend that a "one size fits all" omnivorous menu will do.

Faunus

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:45 am
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teddy bear
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Senior Animal Rights Activist


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 520
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Faunus wrote:
Having said this - food choices, just like religion and politics, does create social alienation. To avoid this unncessary problem, I think it is the responsibility of a host to their honour guests individually, and not pretend that a "one size fits all" omnivorous menu will do.


I totally agree!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:55 am
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Hilary
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Italy
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Faunus wrote:
To avoid this unncessary problem, I think it is the responsibility of a host to their honour guests individually, and not pretend that a "one size fits all" omnivorous menu will do.


I don't know if I understood what you mean, I don't speak english very well... anyway, if you expect omnivores to cook vegan meals just for one person good luck! According to them ours choice is a whim, not a necessity.

In any case, on these occasions of course I don't eat animals. At worst I don't eat at all; the fool is the host, not me.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:51 pm
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Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Senior Animal Rights Activist

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Georgia, USA
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Hilary wrote:
Faunus wrote:
To avoid this unncessary problem, I think it is the responsibility of a host to their honour guests individually, and not pretend that a "one size fits all" omnivorous menu will do.


I don't know if I understood what you mean, I don't speak english very well... anyway, if you expect omnivores to cook vegan meals just for one person good luck! According to them ours choice is a whim, not a necessity.

In any case, on these occasions of course I don't eat animals. At worst I don't eat at all; the fool is the host, not me.


Hi Hilary! I wouldn't expect the host to cook vegan for just one person; she or he may want to include vegan options if that vegan wants to sit amongst non-vegans at the table. Otherwise, how personal is the "personal invitation"? The vegan may want to bring some (or all) of their own food if being in the company of non-vegans means that much to them. Again, I cannot socialise with others when they show no qualms demonstrating their speciesist behaviour - any more than a black person wants to be in a social setting where whites feel free to make racist jokes. Why be there when core values are violated?

What I would personally hope for is that the host understands my declining the invitation to begin with, and let them know why I personally decline. Other vegans can deal with such situations any way they choose. That is their prerogative. What isn't acceptable to me as an activist is remaining polite and giving animal cruelty passive permission by not making vegan identity known and understood.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:28 pm
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Hilary
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Italy
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Faunus wrote:
What isn't acceptable to me as an activist is remaining polite and giving animal cruelty passive permission by not making vegan identity known and understood.


Of course it's not good to be laughed at for our beliefs, but I think a good example and politness are the best weapons.
If other guests just want to provoke then it's different, but it's not always good to get smart.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:21 pm
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Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Senior Animal Rights Activist

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Georgia, USA
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Hilary wrote:
Faunus wrote:
What isn't acceptable to me as an activist is remaining polite and giving animal cruelty passive permission by not making vegan identity known and understood.


Of course it's not good to be laughed at for our beliefs, but I think a good example and politness are the best weapons.
If other guests just want to provoke then it's different, but it's not always good to get smart.


Perhaps I did not word my thoughts very well, and I think you misunderstood me therefore. Sorry.

I would not want to be "polite" by simply accepting an invitation to dinner with a slaughtered animal on the table; I would be polite when declining the invitation. As an abolitionist vegan and an activist, I would be giving passive permission for people to remain speciesist by not voicing my concerns about the animals before the dinner engagement. I don't think the right time to do it at the dinner table; that would be very inappropriate. To say nothing at all is not being a voice for the animals, and a voice for vegan consciousness. I feel morally obligated to explain that I am vegan (and what that means) when the time is appropriate, and not remain "politely" silent for the sake of conserving immoral customs and traditions.

Vegans must make their presence known in the world!

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:57 pm
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Hilary
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Italy
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Faunus wrote:
Perhaps I did not word my thoughts very well, and I think you misunderstood me therefore. Sorry.


I think the problem is my ignorance of english Razz

Faunus wrote:
I don't think the right time to do it at the dinner table


Why not?

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:24 pm
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Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Senior Animal Rights Activist

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Georgia, USA
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Hilary wrote:
Faunus wrote:
Perhaps I did not word my thoughts very well, and I think you misunderstood me therefore. Sorry.


I think the problem is my ignorance of english Razz

Faunus wrote:
I don't think the right time to do it at the dinner table


Why not?


Hilary, your English is quite superior to the long-forgotten/unused Italian I spoke in my youth. I can same the same with Russian. (My mother is from Italy, and my father from Russia - although I had an English step-father later and lived in England). There are 2 other languages I spoke (past tense) fluently when I lived in Tamil Nadu, India and Sri Lanka. Keep using your English, and it will propably become better than mine! Laughing

The problem I have with stating my vegan values at a dinner table has to do with timing for the sake of effectivness. I also feel the need to be respectful of others to begin a communication on veganism, but that does not mean I must respect what they choose. Trying to engage others in conversation about veganism at the table, I would be perceived as a "guilt tripper", a "party pooper", or quite simply as rude. Eating together is about coming together, and I would be seen as "pulling apart" or separating myself from others. This strategy would not be effective, and the extreme violation has already been done to the nonhuman animal: murder.

I became vegetarian at the age of 12, and once a month the family got together with my Italian grandparents, aunts, and uncles for a feast. A sauce was made for me that didn't have any meat in it. (I was not vegan then, so it did have Romano & Parmesan cheese in it). No one at the table questioned my choices during our meal. It would be at other times that they wanted to know why I didn't eat meat. I received no criticism (hey, I was family), but I was not educated and articulate enough to try to get them to respect nonhuman animals. They probably saw me as just an 'emotional kid' who was over-reacting to the killing for human "needs".

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:22 pm
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Hilary
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Italy
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Faunus wrote:
Hilary, your English is quite superior to the long-forgotten/unused Italian I spoke in my youth. I can same the same with Russian. (My mother is from Italy, and my father from Russia - although I had an English step-father later and lived in England). There are 2 other languages I spoke (past tense) fluently when I lived in Tamil Nadu, India and Sri Lanka. Keep using your English, and it will propably become better than mine! Laughing


Four languages? Shocked
However I think italian is more difficult than english.


Faunus wrote:
Trying to engage others in conversation about veganism at the table, I would be perceived as a "guilt tripper", a "party pooper", or quite simply as rude. Eating together is about coming together, and I would be seen as "pulling apart" or separating myself from others. This strategy would not be effective, and the extreme violation has already been done to the nonhuman animal: murder.


Yes, in fact my friends often say that I'm a spoilsport. But I'm not able to keep quiet while they eat animals.
And anyway I want to be separated from murderers, but I can't decline their invitation (expecially when "they" means family) without sounding rude.


Faunus wrote:
I became vegetarian at the age of 12, and once a month the family got together with my Italian grandparents, aunts, and uncles for a feast. A sauce was made for me that didn't have any meat in it. (I was not vegan then, so it did have Romano & Parmesan cheese in it). No one at the table questioned my choices during our meal. It would be at other times that they wanted to know why I didn't eat meat. I received no criticism (hey, I was family), but I was not educated and articulate enough to try to get them to respect nonhuman animals. They probably saw me as just an 'emotional kid' who was over-reacting to the killing for human "needs".


Wow, the first time I ate as a vegetarian with my family they asked me if I was on a diet. They had understood everything! Happy

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:38 pm
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Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Senior Animal Rights Activist

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Georgia, USA
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Hilary wrote:
Faunus wrote:
Hilary, your English is quite superior to the long-forgotten/unused Italian I spoke in my youth. I can same the same with Russian. (My mother is from Italy, and my father from Russia - although I had an English step-father later and lived in England). There are 2 other languages I spoke (past tense) fluently when I lived in Tamil Nadu, India and Sri Lanka. Keep using your English, and it will propably become better than mine! Laughing


Four languages? Shocked
However I think italian is more difficult than english.


Faunus wrote:
Trying to engage others in conversation about veganism at the table, I would be perceived as a "guilt tripper", a "party pooper", or quite simply as rude. Eating together is about coming together, and I would be seen as "pulling apart" or separating myself from others. This strategy would not be effective, and the extreme violation has already been done to the nonhuman animal: murder.


Yes, in fact my friends often say that I'm a spoilsport. But I'm not able to keep quiet while they eat animals.
And anyway I want to be separated from murderers, but I can't decline their invitation (expecially when "they" means family) without sounding rude.

Faunus wrote:
I became vegetarian at the age of 12, and once a month the family got together with my Italian grandparents, aunts, and uncles for a feast. A sauce was made for me that didn't have any meat in it. (I was not vegan then, so it did have Romano & Parmesan cheese in it). No one at the table questioned my choices during our meal. It would be at other times that they wanted to know why I didn't eat meat. I received no criticism (hey, I was family), but I was not educated and articulate enough to try to get them to respect nonhuman animals. They probably saw me as just an 'emotional kid' who was over-reacting to the killing for human "needs".


Wow, the first time I ate as a vegetarian with my family they asked me if I was on a diet. They had understood everything! Happy


Hilary, I don't think we will ever have vegans agreeing upon on how to respond to eating with non-vegans. We don't have to, because we are not clones or a cult. We are all from different cultures, and all have our own individual psychological makeup. That's why I say to others, "Unlike most vegan I know, I am very uncomfortable sitting with others who are eating the corpse of a slaughtered animal" - or something like that. I make my statement before the event, not during it - but that is just my preference. Other vegans would never consider using such a strong statement.

I know vegans who are not uncomfortable eating with omnivores. In fact, they think this is another opportunity to show that (some) vegans are not some different fringe group or "socially isolating". If this is their way, that is quite fine with me; it is not up for my approval or disapproval! But for me personally, my psyche automatically flashes images of the reality behind the tasty morsels of flesh - a reality that most people don't see or want to see. I am more in touch with the slaughtered being than I am the smiling face of an ignorant nonhuman animal with mustard, ketchup or whatever on their lips wanting to continue talking about their job with a capitalist corporation.

Off topic: I was once fluent in more than four languages, but so what. I always confused many words in Spanish with Italian, and my Hispanic friends would have a good laugh along with me. But I worked on my fluency in Central American Spanish for many years. I am also a certified interpreter for the Deaf in American Sign Language. I'm happy to say that I was able to interpret several times between my hearing vegan friends and Deaf friends when we got together. Vegan consciousness and lifestyle seems totally alien to the Deaf here. Religious indoctrination and its speciesism is not at all alien to them.

BTW, I use capitalisation of the word "Deaf" as an accepted cultural practice of profoundly hearing-impaired people here in the U.S. They do have a distinct culture , and want it recognised. So be it. I am considered "Deaf", strangely enough, because I am an integral part of their community. It is not about being "hearing impaired" - it is about "community".

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:13 am
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Hilary
Animal Friend
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Italy
 Re: Vegan Eating at Friend's Houses
What is Acceptable?
Faunus wrote:
Hilary, I don't think we will ever have vegans agreeing upon on how to respond to eating with non-vegans. We don't have to, because we are not clones or a cult. We are all from different cultures, and all have our own individual psychological makeup. That's why I say to others, "Unlike most vegan I know, I am very uncomfortable sitting with others who are eating the corpse of a slaughtered animal" - or something like that. I make my statement before the event, not during it - but that is just my preference. Other vegans would never consider using such a strong statement.

I know vegans who are not uncomfortable eating with omnivores. In fact, they think this is another opportunity to show that (some) vegans are not some different fringe group or "socially isolating". If this is their way, that is quite fine with me; it is not up for my approval or disapproval! But for me personally, my psyche automatically flashes images of the reality behind the tasty morsels of flesh - a reality that most people don't see or want to see. I am more in touch with the slaughtered being than I am the smiling face of an ignorant nonhuman animal with mustard, ketchup or whatever on their lips wanting to continue talking about their job with a capitalist corporation.


Yes, I understand. I think I'm more like the second kind of vegan that you listed, but not always... depends on who the hosts are.

Anyway I think it's always better to decline invitations (if possible), this will avoid many troubles Very Happy

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:33 pm
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saflett
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Joined: 26 Apr 2010
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Location: Brussels, Belgium
 I also normally bring some food, either for myself or, preferably, a dish for everyone, agreed with the host before the event.

I don't agree that declining an invitation is a good choice. I completely agree that we should be vocal about our beliefs and that explaining people why you don't eat dead animal carcasses over dinner is quite rude, to say the least.. But if we decline, we give the host and others a reason to feel sorry for us, they might think: poor vegans, they can't even get together with others for dinner and have some fun. That's not going to convince anyone to reflect positively on our cause. I am happy and proud to be vegan, no need for pity here. And anyway, the fact that I wouldn't witness one particular event of eating animals is not going to change anything, I know that most people eat meat, eggs and dairy, that's just the reality. I think one of the best ways to change this reality is by showing others that you are a happy vegan and by sharing some great vegan food with them.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:41 am
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