The time now is Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:10 am
All times are UTC + 1 |
|
Page 1 of 2 [20 Posts] |
Goto page: 1, 2 Next |
beachie365
Animal Friend
Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Posts: 16
Location: California, USA
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject:
 Should I force my child to be vegan? |
 |
|
|
I apologize if this has been discussed before. I'm sure it has, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I've gone from vegetarian to vegan. I've discussed the reasons behind this with my 10-year-old daughter and she completely understands and is compassionate toward all animals. However, she will not drink soy milk and does not want to give up her milk and cereal. Also, she loves cheese, and despite my explanations, doesn't want to be on board with going fully vegan. I won't buy these products. But should I tell her she is not allowed to eat them at school and daycare, when the other kids are eating them? (She also is bothered by being different all the time by being vegetarian, but does it anyway) Maybe making a rule about her not being allowed to eat milk or cheese or yogurt, etc. will be too much for her. But I feel strongly. What would you do? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
teddy bear
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 520
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Should I force my child to be vegan? |
|
|
| beachie365 wrote:
|
|
Maybe making a rule about her not being allowed to eat milk or cheese or yogurt, etc. will be too much for her.
|
From a vegan who is not a parent, don't make such a rule. If she gets pocket money/allowance from you, tell her that she may buy animal derived products with her own money. Also, don't make her feel guilty if she is eating animals. She has to form her own awareness of the cruelties involved in non-vegan diets.
_________________
Peace is not cessation from war but something higher transcending the contention between warmongers and pacifists, who badly need each other to exist.
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/slides/theory1.html
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Horsefriend
Animal Activist
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 481
Location: Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
As a former child, I would recommend against those kinds of rules, because it might cause resentment. As a kid I was "forced" to eat meat. Maybe that helped push me in the right direction.
_________________
Truth means responsibility
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
beachie365
Animal Friend
Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Posts: 16
Location: California, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Should I force my child to be vegan? |
|
|
| teddy bear wrote:
|
|
She has to form her own awareness of the cruelties involved in non-vegan diets.
|
I think you're right. I don't want to push something on her, especially since it may make her rebel later. Thanks.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Geoff
Animal Rights Guru
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1089
Location: Brisbane Australia
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:41 am Post subject:
|
|
|
| Horsefriend wrote:
|
|
As a former child, I would recommend against those kinds of rules, because it might cause resentment. As a kid I was "forced" to eat meat. Maybe that helped push me in the right direction.
|
I agree. All you can do is to only have vegan food available at home and talk to her about the animal industry and its cruelty.
(As a child I even ate whale and horse meat (sorry Horsefriend  )
_________________
'If possessing a higher degree of intelligence does not entitle one human to use another for his or her own ends, how can it entitle humans to exploit non humans for the same purpose?' – Peter Singer
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Horsefriend
Animal Activist
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 481
Location: Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Did you really have to tell me that? You are sadistic aren't you? And the bus thing too. No goddamn reason to mention that.
_________________
Truth means responsibility
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 902
Location: Georgia, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:04 am Post subject:
Re: Should I force my child to be vegan? |
|
|
| beachie365 wrote:
|
|
I apologize if this has been discussed before. I'm sure it has, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I've gone from vegetarian to vegan. I've discussed the reasons behind this with my 10-year-old daughter and she completely understands and is compassionate toward all animals. However, she will not drink soy milk and does not want to give up her milk and cereal. Also, she loves cheese, and despite my explanations, doesn't want to be on board with going fully vegan. I won't buy these products. But should I tell her she is not allowed to eat them at school and daycare, when the other kids are eating them? (She also is bothered by being different all the time by being vegetarian, but does it anyway) Maybe making a rule about her not being allowed to eat milk or cheese or yogurt, etc. will be too much for her. But I feel strongly. What would you do? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
|
Hello Beachie365! Here's my take on this question: reverse it. Should I force or allow my child to be an omnivore and go against all of the evidence that it is damaging to the body, utterly cruel to nonhuman animals, and to the environment?
You are the caregiver, not me, but I would not allow my child to do so and pay for it too. What if I learned that my child liked smoking pot, cigarettes, sneak a beer, or occasionally doing some illegal drugs? As the parent, I'm chosing to be the rational and compassionate caregiver, rule-maker, educator, and whatever else it takes because my child doesn't have the maturity to make those choices.
Personally, I don't see any difference between the wrong-doing of underage drinking, smoking, and illegal drugs - and giving into the unwise food choices of a child. However, because I have not raised children, it would be a challenge to me to educate a 10-year old about where food and other products come from, and why this household will be vegan. But I would find a way to get that point across! Saying "no" - "because I said so", is what would invite rebellion or oppositional behaviour.
With respect, Faunus
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
beachie365
Animal Friend
Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Posts: 16
Location: California, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:35 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Hi Faunus  Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. Of course, you are right. The only thing I worry about is her resenting me later, and rebelling against being vegan. As soon as I got away from my unbelievably strict parents, I basically went and did everything they'd told me not to do, lol. I want her to want to do it because it's the right thing. Like you said, telling her "because I said so" is just not going to work. The one place I have already drawn a clear line is that we won't have animal products here. Now I need to work on getting her to not want them anywhere else either. (And maybe even convincing some of her friends too!) According to children everywhere, parents don't know a thing. So maybe I should have her speak to someone else about it and she will be more willing to respect their opinion. I will plan to do that. But I just want you to know I see your point and do not disagree that it is my job to protect her.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
teddy bear
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 520
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:21 am Post subject:
Re: Should I force my child to be vegan? |
|
|
| Faunus wrote:
|
|
As the parent, I'm chosing to be the rational and compassionate caregiver, rule-maker, educator, and whatever else it takes because my child doesn't have the maturity to make those choices.
|
When does the child have the maturity to make those choices? When they reach certain age, do they miraculously gain maturity? That is what society wants us to believe, and that is the basis for adultocracy. It is basically the rule of parents over their children and is most commonly basis for exploitation. It's not the kind of physical exploitation that you go to jail for, but we are talking about psychological wounds that may never heal, or at least will take years of therapy to do so.
What is the pillar of this exploitation? Not being able to see that the child is also a person with his/her personality. This fault leads to something which is basically a prison sentence for the first 18 years in life.
Talking about choices: which choices should we make for children? There are so many things adults can't agree on among themselves. Who is to say that parents can choose e.g. religion for their children, or which type of music should they listen to, or should they play video games or not? Why is a 14-yo not able to maturely decide to smoke a cigarette, and an 18-yo is? Because they are more susceptible to commercials? I think the adults are as much, if not more. That argument is also one common pillar to keep the adultocracy in place.
Janis, if you give your child the respect she needs, she will learn the right values from you, that's how knowledge passes from parent to child. Her love for milk and cheese came from you, remember that. She may have some loving memories that she connects with those items, those take time to disassociate. She will become aware in time, if you just have patience, and give her due respect, which I can see you already do.
_________________
Peace is not cessation from war but something higher transcending the contention between warmongers and pacifists, who badly need each other to exist.
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/slides/theory1.html
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3458
Location: Chicago, IL
|
| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 6:45 am Post subject:
Re: Should I force my child to be vegan? |
|
|
| beachie365 wrote:
|
|
Like you said, telling her "because I said so" is just not going to work. The one place I have already drawn a clear line is that we won't have animal products here. Now I need to work on getting her to not want them anywhere else either. (And maybe even convincing some of her friends too!) According to children everywhere, parents don't know a thing. So maybe I should have her speak to someone else about it and she will be more willing to respect their opinion. I will plan to do that.
|
Beachie, I am definitely in favor of those two ideas:
1) being firm about not having animal products in the house, and
2) getting a conversation going between her and another vegan. It would be good to have it be someone who has no conflict of interest with her, so she can feel completely comfortable about any doubts or difficulties or hopes or fears.
| teddy bear wrote:
|
Talking about choices: which choices should we make for children? There are so many things adults can't agree on among themselves. Who is to say that parents can choose e.g. religion for their children, or which type of music should they listen to, or should they play video games or not? Why is a 14-yo not able to maturely decide to smoke a cigarette, and an 18-yo is? Because they are more susceptible to commercials? I think the adults are as much, if not more. That argument is also one common pillar to keep the adultocracy in place.
Janis, if you give your child the respect she needs, she will learn the right values from you, that's how knowledge passes from parent to child. Her love for milk and cheese came from you, remember that. She may have some loving memories that she connects with those items, those take time to disassociate. She will become aware in time, if you just have patience, and give her due respect, which I can see you already do.
|
Teddy bear, there is something about your words that makes me anxious. (which is unusual, since I am usually thinking "yes, that's exactly right, everybody listen to teddy bear!"  ) I may be distorting them, though.
When you talk about choices, you imply that we should be making fewer of them for our children, even when they affect their well-being and the well-being of others. Faunus points out that the consumption of animal products is detrimental to the consumer's health, as well as that of the consumed. Is that really something you want to leave up to her, when you know how much she has been "brainwashed" all this time, even by her beloved parent until she realized how unethical this is? The decks are stacked the wrong way, and not to interfere is to allow her to be intensely influenced by a thoroughly speciesist society.
Would you also say that she should be allowed to use her allowance to purchase furs or go hunting, without being made to feel guilty about it? What about going to bullfights or betting on dogfights? (Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "being made to feel guilty" about something. I guess it wouldn't mean that you had to be supportive of it.) Would it be different if she were cutting herself b/c she was immersed in a culture that valorized such behavior?
It just seems like an injustice to allow injustice (in the form of animal exploitation and cruelty) in the name of allowing more choice. I realize that we're trying to change this in society as a whole, and to do that, we're counting on cultivating a culture of respect, rather than forcing our visions of justice on others.
But there is a difference between other adults and one's own children, for as long as those children are dependent on us. And I don't think it's just a matter of age. Maybe it all comes down to a question of money!
_________________
Animals are not property.
ARCO's Abolitionists
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3458
Location: Chicago, IL
|
| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 6:48 am Post subject:
|
|
|
I just wanted to offer that in this situation, I'm in favor of allowing her to use any money she earns on her own to buy animal products, but not allowing them in the house.
_________________
Animals are not property.
ARCO's Abolitionists
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
teddy bear
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 520
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
|
| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 8:02 am Post subject:
Re: Should I force my child to be vegan? |
|
|
| panthera wrote:
|
|
Teddy bear, there is something about your words that makes me anxious. (which is unusual, since I am usually thinking "yes, that's exactly right, everybody listen to teddy bear!" )
|
LOL, thank you
You might feel anxious because we maybe disagree on this topic. Also, I had a messy chilhood, which I wanted to fish out of the deeps of my unconscious, to get to terms with my troubling feelings and thoughts. I did it through psychoteraphy, and I had some interesting insights.
| Quote:
|
|
When you talk about choices, you imply that we should be making fewer of them for our children, even when they affect their well-being and the well-being of others. Faunus points out that the consumption of animal products is detrimental to the consumer's health, as well as that of the consumed. Is that really something you want to leave up to her, when you know how much she has been "brainwashed" all this time, even by her beloved parent until she realized how unethical this is? The decks are stacked the wrong way, and not to interfere is to allow her to be intensely influenced by a thoroughly speciesist society.
|
Yes, I do imply we should be making fewer choices for our children, even in those situations. I don't see how a child is going to be less brainwashed at 18 than at 14. That is just 4 more years of watching TV or playing video-games or socializing with their meat-eating, smoking, and drinking peers at high-school.
And someone here said it already, by interfering, you might make your child rebelious. She may feel that eating a burger, when she turns 18, is an expression of her new-found freedom, of doing things she may never have done as a kid. This sort of thinking is in itself a warning sign that children do feel like they were not treated as persons while growing up, rather like means to someone's end (even if that end is world veganism and a sustainable Earth).
| Quote:
|
|
Would you also say that she should be allowed to use her allowance to purchase furs or go hunting, without being made to feel guilty about it? What about going to bullfights or betting on dogfights?
|
It's her allowance. Good parents should teach about the injustice of those things, just like good parents give an allowance to teach children how to manage money and to give them the feel of independence. If a child chooses to spend money on animal industries, that means that she relates more to societies value's than to parents' values. It's probably because the parent didn't nourish his relationship with the child, leaving the care to the child's grandparents, relatives, TV, or other things, by which the child internalized their values.
| Quote:
|
It just seems like an injustice to allow injustice (in the form of animal exploitation and cruelty) in the name of allowing more choice. I realize that we're trying to change this in society as a whole, and to do that, we're counting on cultivating a culture of respect, rather than forcing our visions of justice on others.
But there is a difference between other adults and one's own children, for as long as those children are dependent on us. And I don't think it's just a matter of age. Maybe it all comes down to a question of money!
|
From my position, there is no injustice in giving allowance to the child. To teach a child about the morals of spending your money on animal industries is also a great thing to do. Deciding what they can do with their allowance is not fair.
This does not apply only on spending money on animal industries, but also on other hazardous health activities like smoking or drinking.
If a child feels free from his early age, he will be able to choose more freely the kind of behavior that benefits him and others. If he is not given freedom, he will not only be more susceptible to social pressure, but will have the added disadvantage of having formed behavioral patterns which will prevent him from freely chosing his (best) behavior.
_________________
Peace is not cessation from war but something higher transcending the contention between warmongers and pacifists, who badly need each other to exist.
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/slides/theory1.html
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3458
Location: Chicago, IL
|
| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Should I force my child to be vegan? |
|
|
| teddy bear wrote:
|
|
If a child feels free from his early age, he will be able to choose more freely the kind of behavior that benefits him and others. If he is not given freedom, he will not only be more susceptible to social pressure, but will have the added disadvantage of having formed behavioral patterns which will prevent him from freely chosing his (best) behavior.
|
This is an important concept that people are only beginning to think about. I'm not a parent, but I lived in a community that was very aware of this, and actively tried to avoid it.
_________________
Animals are not property.
ARCO's Abolitionists
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
LiveVegan
Rookie Animal Activist
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 109
Location: IL
|
| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:59 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
My daughter was raised vegetarian as soon as her dad and I seperated. She had to buy meat products with her own money (which she didn't do very long)or go to her fathers house. Meat was not allowed in my home no matter who bought hit.
Children need rules. Kids hate rules, thats the way it goes. She wasn't allowed to run in the street or eat candy before dinner. She hated them both but it was the rule. She wasn't allowed to eat meat because its bad for her and because I have a responsibility to put her into the world with morals and ideals. Period. Since we are the adults, we have to make decisions to better our children's life and to give them good solid foundations and moral backing. My daughter is now a vegan by her own choice and doesn't regret the fact that I didn't allow her to gluttonize my cabinets.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
2Veggie4You
Tourist
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
If you have read my post about my mother's lack of support you would know that I am a teen so here's my perspective:
Your daughter is probably just not wanting to give up the foods she likes- and that's only natural. I was a little hesitant even to give up cheese and milk because, as many people know, cheese is addictive and milk is just something you get used to! She needs motivation. Is there a kid vegan forum she can join- or maybe subscribe to a kids AR mag, like PeTA Kids "Grrr" Magazine. A vegan friend would be nice and buying vegan treats like Twizzlers and Sour Patch Kids to get her through the difficult times! Hope this helps. Veganism rocks and I've been veg now for almost a week! Yay!
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
|
Page 1 of 2 [20 Posts] |
Goto page: 1, 2 Next |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum
|
Bringing Animal Rights closer and offering a vegetarian, vegan or fruitarian alternative. |
