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alexiconartist
Animal Friend
Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 12
Location: St. Louis, MO
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 Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject:
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My brother, who also shares my apartment with my boyfriend and me, has recently gone off the vegan wagon, and has decided to be a vegetarian again. This is his second time quitting veganism and going back to vegetarianism, and I'm not sure how to deal with living with him lately...seeing all the cheese and eggs and ice cream in our house; knowing how hypocritical and lazy he's being; and hearing his excuses about how animals just aren't his cause.
I know I'm supposed to be understanding and to talk reasonably with him about veganism (again), but I'm nothing but angry with him lately. The last time he quit being vegan, when my boyfriend and I talked to him about all the ethical implications of only being vegetarian, he completely agreed with us! He's educated on, thoughtful of, and usually sensitive to animal rights issues. He's just given up for his own convenience...or whatever else. And I don't know how to handle being around him or trying to talk to him about this.
Help? Please?
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panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3458
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:38 am Post subject:
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Wow. Giving up veganism is one of the mysteries of the universe, for me. Unless you were only doing it as a diet. Why doesn't he just go omni at this point, since he knows the truth about the dairy & egg industries?
So what IS he saying about it? What motivated him to be vegan in the first place, and how did he get "back on the wagon" last time?
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Veganomante
Animal Activist
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 423
Location: Chile
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject:
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I would cut him some slack.
The fact that he's quit veganism twice means he has gone vegan twice. This, to me, means he's really trying but it's hard for him.
Think about this: perhaps it is easy for you to be vegan. I know for me it is. I just don't have any cravings, I don't care what people say, I don't care if I'm socially excluded nor do I care if I have to take a trip across the city to buy some bloody tofu. But I didn't grow into being like this. I AM like this, and thus it's easy for me to be a vegan.
As you say, he understands perfectly the ethical arguments, as you and I do. But ethics is not all their is to this --practical implications matter too. I don't know your brother, but maybe he really fights internally, ethics v. pragmatism.
Maybe someday he'll really adjust to a vegan lifestyle, maybe he won't. But being angry at him won't help speed the process up --I just don't think he'll go vegan out of remorse. The best you can do is keep supporting him (indirectly is better, I think, not telling him to go vegan at every chance).
On the other hand, I understand you feel like this. But perhaps the strength to go vegan both times have come from you. Maybe you're his only link to the vegan world. Isn't it better to keep it a friendly one?
Regards
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alexiconartist
Animal Friend
Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 12
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject:
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He says he only went vegan the second (and maybe the first?) time to make me happy. I don't know how to take that. I'm 25, he's 23, and I thought we were grown enough and beyond just doing things to make others like us. Maybe that's just me? Or maybe he's simply using this as an excuse to pin his shortcomings back on me.
I know that to be a good vegan example, I need to be strong, understanding, supportive, and so on and so forth...but there's something about Zack being my brother, and someone I usually trust and respect, that makes all this particularly frustrating.
Maybe I'm asking too much here, huh? I guess more than a vegan message forum, I need some family counseling. Ha ha ha...
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panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3458
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:06 am Post subject:
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| alexiconartist wrote:
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...but there's something about Zack being my brother, and someone I usually trust and respect, that makes all this particularly frustrating.
Maybe I'm asking too much here, huh? I guess more than a vegan message forum, I need some family counseling. Ha ha ha...
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Well, I am committed to supporting vegans any way I can, so I would like to see you get some support here, too. Although family counseling is always a good thing (Good counseling is quite useful for everybody, I think). Dealing with family members is commonly one of the hardest things vegans have to go through. It's an interesting twist, in that your brother has gone vegan twice before, as Veganomante points out.
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He says he only went vegan the second (and maybe the first?) time to make me happy. I don't know how to take that. I'm 25, he's 23, and I thought we were grown enough and beyond just doing things to make others like us. Maybe that's just me? Or maybe he's simply using this as an excuse to pin his shortcomings back on me.
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Maybe this is part of his self-differentiating phase. People generally try to figure themselves out in their teens & twenties. Different people mature at different rates, and someone may be mature in one way but not in another. Also, for your brother, pleasing you may have been tied in with various other issues that are difficult to tease apart.
On your side of the issue, it's worse than just dealing with a non-vegan roommate. As you said, this is someone you trust & respect. I imagine it really hurts to have him betray your values, ones that you thought he truly shared. It'll be hard to stay as close as before, which means you're losing part of a relationship. That stings.
I don't think that arguing about veganism is going to be very helpful. That's not where the problem is now, for the two of you. It's about your relationship with each other.
I would try to be very frank with him about not knowing quite how to go forward. I'd try to convey to him that I wanted to figure out how to continue a loving relationship. Of course, I'd have to admit that my dearest wish would be that he join me in veganism again, but that even if that didn't happen, I still wanted to be close to my little brother.
And Veganomante, you're very lucky not to have food cravings. I've been vegan for 3 yrs, and I still find it extremely difficult sometimes. I'm working in a bakery these days, and the constant aroma of baking cookies & brownies, and seeing the extra/broken ones being tossed out is becoming quite torturous as time goes on. And all the meat/dairy/egg dishes that I loved for over 3 decades still appeal to me when I'm not feeling really solid.
My ego/superego have to sit on my id and squash it sometimes, to keep it in check. 
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antikfc
Rookie Animal Activist
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 261
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject:
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sounds like he may have been vegan for the wrong reasons. He should be doing it for the animals and not to make you happy.
Has he seen any videos of what happens to dairy cows and hens and how they are so abused? sometimes videos can say what we can not.
Maybe you can mention that he might have better energy if he gave those things up. some people believe in the old saying, "what comes around goes around".
And if all else fails, you may even want to consider suggesting that if he really has such strong cravings for eggs and dairy maybe he can just find some "freegan" means of obtaining it. Maybe through dumpster diving or looking into salvage stores that sell discontinued items. He would probably have some luck finding that sort of thing there. At least this way he is not directly supporting the industry.Or maybe if you are able to, you can get these items for him in this manner.
Also, try and look on the bright side, it would be worse if he also included meat back into his diet as well. At least he did not do that.
Good luck and I hope you feel better.
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Gorachan
The silent one
Joined: 02 Jun 2010
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:44 am Post subject:
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| alexiconartist wrote:
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He says he only went vegan the second (and maybe the first?) time to make me happy. I don't know how to take that. I'm 25, he's 23, and I thought we were grown enough and beyond just doing things to make others like us. Maybe that's just me? Or maybe he's simply using this as an excuse to pin his shortcomings back on me.
I know that to be a good vegan example, I need to be strong, understanding, supportive, and so on and so forth...but there's something about Zack being my brother, and someone I usually trust and respect, that makes all this particularly frustrating.
Maybe I'm asking too much here, huh? I guess more than a vegan message forum, I need some family counseling. Ha ha ha...
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Well from the sound of it id do stuff to get you off my back as well...geez leave the fella alone its his life
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teddy bear
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 520
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:51 am Post subject:
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| Gorachan wrote:
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Well from the sound of it id do stuff to get you off my back as well...geez leave the fella alone its his life
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Let's reframe your response a bit. How about that fella leaves all the "laying hens" and "dairy cows" with their calves alone, it's their life. You sound very unaware of all the mechanisms of exploitation of non-human animals and the nature of their relationship to humans.
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Peace is not cessation from war but something higher transcending the contention between warmongers and pacifists, who badly need each other to exist.
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/slides/theory1.html
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panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3458
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:17 am Post subject:
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(Teddy bear rocks!) 
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ARCO's Abolitionists
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teddy bear
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 520
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject:
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| panthera wrote:
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(Teddy bear rocks!)
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Thank you, much appreciated.
_________________
Peace is not cessation from war but something higher transcending the contention between warmongers and pacifists, who badly need each other to exist.
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/slides/theory1.html
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