The time now is Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:12 am
All times are UTC + 1 |
|
Page 1 of 2 [20 Posts] |
Goto page: 1, 2 Next |
Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Georgia, USA
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Horsefriend
Animal Activist
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 482
Location: Rhode Island, USA
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
Actually, I was curious. I hadn't realized that vegans have been around for so long. For some reason the link isn't working, but I found it on this page: http://www.vegsource.com/john-davis/the-invention-of-the-vegans.html It looks like they added and 's'. Thanks!
_________________
Truth means responsibility
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Georgia, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:32 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Thanks Horsefriend! Actually, it was I that omitted the "s" at the end of the word "vegan" in that address. That mistake was edited. I'm so glad you pointed that out!
I also didn't know that veganism was around for so many decades. If the clue train had tracks where I was growing up, I would have become a vegan at the age of 12 rather than a vegetarian. Living in India and Sri Lanka later on didn't help matters. They are just now catching on to the message of anti-speciesism, and it is the same resistance being encountered due to their cultures, traditions, and religions.
Faunus
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Horsefriend
Animal Activist
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 482
Location: Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Just imagine a time when those tracks reach worldwide!
_________________
Truth means responsibility
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Georgia, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:37 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
| Horsefriend wrote:
|
|
Just imagine a time when those tracks reach worldwide!
|
Oh, I couldn't agree more, Horsefriend - and a lot of progress is being made globally! We should never give up hope and determination for the nonhuman animals, for the environment, for our health, and so many other good reasons. I feel somehow intimately part of a partially invisible vegan family who live scattered all over our planet. So many of them work to inspire this ethical imperative within others, quite often under the least ideal social, religious, and economic conditions.
I still find that most people around me in Georgia do not know what veganism refers to specifically. Most people I speak with believe it is a synonym for "vegetarian"; they think it is some sort of "diet thing". Others have heard the term but cannot exactly say what it means.
I always make it a point to wear my shirt that says "Vegan" on it (surrounded by some nice art work) when I'm at the veterinarian's office. Surrounded by speciesist "animal lovers" (an oxymoron)awaiting services, conversation is always brought up by someone noticing my shirt. I engage them and others in dialogue about our "mutual respect for animals", and never preach anti-speciesism. Planting inspirational seeds within their minds, I discretely tell them why I am vegan, and never why they should also be. That method works, on the whole - and I always have a stash of pre-printed web sites in my tote bag to share with them if they are interested in learning more. I've given dozens of them away to people who are truly interested in getting an understanding of the word. Another key to not coming across as preachy is having engaged conversation in the context of assuming that they are "moral people" too. Most people believe they are.
I've also met dozens of vegans in the most unlikely places, mostly by finding clever ways to casually mention the fact that I am one - and sometimes by wearing my "Vegan" shirt. I have lots in interesting stories on that - and these are when I was not at my literature table set up in a local park.
How many of us were raised by vegan parents? I keep this in mind when communicating with others using the empathic approach.
Tell me your views of the people where you live (vegan and non-vegan). I'd love to hear what you have to say!
End of rant. 
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Horsefriend
Animal Activist
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 482
Location: Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:31 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Your empathic approach sounds perfect. I think it gives them a chance to think about it on their own without feeling pressured. And, like you said, most people think that they are "moral people", so surely they will think about it. I have yet to meet another vegan in real life, but I know plenty of vegetarians. I try to use every opportunity to mention things like intelligence and emotions in other species and the effects of things like factory farming, deforestation, pollution, etc. I'm not sure how much good I've done.
There are a surprising number of cattle and horse farms around here. There are also plenty of goats and horses kept in tiny little enclosures ALL ALONE as pets. That's such torture for herd animals. I see plenty of bumper stickers that say "save a cow, eat a vegetarian" and those stupid "PETA" shirts.
I think using the vet's office as a forum is a great idea. It's too bad that my vet comes to me. (Horses) I've helped one friend to go 'mostly' vegan. He is really lazy and doesn't check the ingredients on things he buys. Plus I found out that he still eats sushi and cheese on occasion. He thinks he's saving so many lives, and it's OK to cheat here and there. He's so frustrating. I've tried the guilt trip on occasion. (We've known each other since high school). He's actually the one who introduced me to the word "vegan". I've always wanted to help by building sanctuaries and donating to rescues and other organizations. I should get a vegan shirt. That's a great idea. No, I'll get a hat so I can wear it all the time. I'm excited! Thanks for the ideas!
_________________
Truth means responsibility
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Geoff
Animal Rights Guru
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1089
Location: Brisbane Australia
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
| Horsefriend wrote:
|
I think using the vet's office as a forum is a great idea. It's too bad that my vet comes to me.
|
I now have a mental image of someone in a vet's waiting room with a horse sitting beside them.
_________________
'If possessing a higher degree of intelligence does not entitle one human to use another for his or her own ends, how can it entitle humans to exploit non humans for the same purpose?' – Peter Singer
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
teddy bear
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 520
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:25 am Post subject:
|
|
|
| Geoff wrote:
|
| Horsefriend wrote:
|
I think using the vet's office as a forum is a great idea. It's too bad that my vet comes to me.
|
I now have a mental image of someone in a vet's waiting room with a horse sitting beside them.
|
_________________
Peace is not cessation from war but something higher transcending the contention between warmongers and pacifists, who badly need each other to exist.
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/slides/theory1.html
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3468
Location: Chicago, IL
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I think this part of the article is quite interesting:
| Quote:
|
Over those first few years there was much discussion about the definition of the new word. Initially it was just about diet, but new rules were adopted by the Vegan Society in 1951. This went much further than mere 'non-dairy' :
"The object of the Society shall be to end the exploitation of animals by man;" and "The word veganism shall mean the doctrine that man should live without exploiting animals."
They continued: "The Society pledges itself in pursuance of its object to seek to end the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection and all other uses involving exploitation of animal life by man."
But. . . it is not clear whether the group in California agreed to all this, or were even initially aware of it. It is possibly a result of this that there has always been a significant group 'dietary vegans' in the USA, whilst others regard themselves as 'ethical vegans'. The British Vegan Society, and many Americans, do not accept the distinction, insisting that ethics are an integral part of the definition. But it is always difficult to argue against common usage of any words.
|
| Horsefriend wrote:
|
|
I've helped one friend to go 'mostly' vegan. He is really lazy and doesn't check the ingredients on things he buys. Plus I found out that he still eats sushi and cheese on occasion. He thinks he's saving so many lives, and it's OK to cheat here and there. He's so frustrating. I've tried the guilt trip on occasion.
|
Congrats on helping him change his diet & outlook! In the recent past, I'd come to think that a "mostly vegan" diet was sufficient for those who wouldn't go completely vegan, and that it'd be better to support what he's doing and forget the other parts. But that's indicative of a dietary veganism approach, or a "veganism as a tool to reduce suffering" approach.
Teddy bear, in a post at the Abolitionists forum, pointed out the weaknesses of concentrating on the dietary aspects alone. It has to be a solid antispeciesist commitment that grounds it. Then the dietary consistency should follow naturally.
What is your reason for wanting him to go completely vegan?
_________________
Animals are not property.
ARCO's Abolitionists
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Horsefriend
Animal Activist
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 482
Location: Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
| panthera wrote:
|
I think this part of the article is quite interesting:
| Quote:
|
Over those first few years there was much discussion about the definition of the new word. Initially it was just about diet, but new rules were adopted by the Vegan Society in 1951. This went much further than mere 'non-dairy' :
"The object of the Society shall be to end the exploitation of animals by man;" and "The word veganism shall mean the doctrine that man should live without exploiting animals."
They continued: "The Society pledges itself in pursuance of its object to seek to end the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection and all other uses involving exploitation of animal life by man."
But. . . it is not clear whether the group in California agreed to all this, or were even initially aware of it. It is possibly a result of this that there has always been a significant group 'dietary vegans' in the USA, whilst others regard themselves as 'ethical vegans'. The British Vegan Society, and many Americans, do not accept the distinction, insisting that ethics are an integral part of the definition. But it is always difficult to argue against common usage of any words.
|
| Horsefriend wrote:
|
|
I've helped one friend to go 'mostly' vegan. He is really lazy and doesn't check the ingredients on things he buys. Plus I found out that he still eats sushi and cheese on occasion. He thinks he's saving so many lives, and it's OK to cheat here and there. He's so frustrating. I've tried the guilt trip on occasion.
|
Congrats on helping him change his diet & outlook! In the recent past, I'd come to think that a "mostly vegan" diet was sufficient for those who wouldn't go completely vegan, and that it'd be better to support what he's doing and forget the other parts. But that's indicative of a dietary veganism approach, or a "veganism as a tool to reduce suffering" approach.
Teddy bear, in a post at the Abolitionists forum, pointed out the weaknesses of concentrating on the dietary aspects alone. It has to be a solid antispeciesist commitment that grounds it. Then the dietary consistency should follow naturally.
What is your reason for wanting him to go completely vegan?
|
To reduce the suffering of other species. I couldn't care less about his diet. The thing is, I know he doesn't really care that much about other species. That's why he doesn't try really hard. I think he just tries to lose weight and still eat some things he likes. He claims that he cares, and he does to some degree, but he cares more about his pleasure. He's that way with friendships. He's just a poser. He always pretends to be whatever he thinks will please the person he's with. I've been trying to change him for years. I don't think it's possible. I'm not talking to him right now.
_________________
Truth means responsibility
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3468
Location: Chicago, IL
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:15 am Post subject:
|
|
|
| Horsefriend wrote:
|
|
I've been trying to change him for years. I don't think it's possible.
|
That first sentence right there should send up a red flag. Can't change other people. 
_________________
Animals are not property.
ARCO's Abolitionists
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Geoff
Animal Rights Guru
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1089
Location: Brisbane Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:55 am Post subject:
|
|
|
| panthera wrote:
|
|
Can't change other people.
|
So, what's the point of vegan outreach / education?
_________________
'If possessing a higher degree of intelligence does not entitle one human to use another for his or her own ends, how can it entitle humans to exploit non humans for the same purpose?' – Peter Singer
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
Faunus
Senior Animal Rights Activist
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Georgia, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:03 am Post subject:
|
|
|
| panthera wrote:
|
| Horsefriend wrote:
|
|
I've been trying to change him for years. I don't think it's possible.
|
That first sentence right there should send up a red flag. Can't change other people.
|
Good point! So many people have the "what's in it for me?" mindset, so I use it to tell them why I am vegan - and never preach why they should be. What's in it for me is exactly the same benefits for nonhuman animals, the environment, my health, etc.
Religious people around me really crack me up to no end. When they start their mini-sermon about being "saved", about expressing kindness, compassion, and gentleness, etc. - they've established the exact atmosphere for me to share how I've also been saved from the evils of greed, ignorance, and false views. I talk about the salvation of other beings from ruthless persecution and slaughter by being a vegan, and about the bravery of spirit during rescues. I talk about my salvation from the evils of the false gods within the capitalist corporations who will use deception in every way they can to support death, disease, bloodshed, and destruction. I've learned how to mimick the zealot talking at me, and then dominate the conversation. (I admit doing a bit of "drama queen" stuff upon occasion when around the fundamentalists and other religious nutters. It has entertainment value, and perhaps plants a few mustard seeds).
I could get on a roll here, but it's time to go to bed.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3468
Location: Chicago, IL
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:47 am Post subject:
|
|
|
| Faunus wrote:
|
|
I talk about my salvation from the evils of the false gods within the capitalist corporations who will use deception in every way they can to support death, disease, bloodshed, and destruction.
|
except it's really  
_________________
Animals are not property.
ARCO's Abolitionists
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
panthera
Animal Guardian Angel
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3468
Location: Chicago, IL
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:49 am Post subject:
|
|
|
| Geoff wrote:
|
| panthera wrote:
|
|
Can't change other people.
|
So, what's the point of vegan outreach / education?
|
Raising awareness and offering possibilities. Not pressuring. At least, that's the idea. 
_________________
Animals are not property.
ARCO's Abolitionists
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
|
Page 1 of 2 [20 Posts] |
Goto page: 1, 2 Next |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum
|
Bringing Animal Rights closer and offering a vegetarian, vegan or fruitarian alternative. |
The Invention of the Vegans
